Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Shidduch resumes: additional comments from imamother

omg what is the world coming to ... and we wonder why it's so hard to make shidduchim ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To bad that there was no option of disgusting. Anyone ever looking for a job knows that resumes can also be padded. Most of the shadchanim I know would never introduce anyone without a reasonable belief that this most definitely can work.

I never call only the listed people. I B"H have friends in a lot of communities.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enlighten me - who receives the resume? And how is it different from jotting down the same info you are hearing in a phone conversation checking out the boy/girl?

For example, I can say, "Take down these reference numbers - this is her 12th grade teacher - 7-7-7-7-7-7-7..." or I can say, "Give me your email address or fax number and I'll send you all her references."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
have three kids in shidduchim, (2 boys and a girl) and find it much easier to e-mail or fax a reeume than to constantly repeat info.
Sure, references lie, that is why I never call them, rather I use the resume info as a springboard to get info. If I see boy / girl went to camp XYZ or davens in Shul ABC, I call someone I know from that camp or shul.

I have also married off two girls and a boy and have never given or asked for a picture, but I can tell you that having a picture may be helpful. There were times my child went out with someone that was very nice but they were repulsed by their date's looks. A picture would have prevented a waste of time for both of them. I am not condoning the insistence of pictures, I am saying that looks do count and though beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, looking at a prospective dates picture might help.

BTW, if you are internet savvy you can find a picture of most people on the internet.
_________________
Smiling Mom
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hidduch resumes are very useful. At the very least they have reference names and numbers that are much more often accurate and legible than the scrawled-on-the-back-of-an-envelope non-resumes. If the resume comes with a description it also tells me whether the girl (or her parents!) can write a coherent paragraph and often what the girl's strong points are. Sometimes a dealbreaker is immediately apparent, such as the girl wanting a shortterm learner or a quiet boy. Also, if the info on the resume doesn't sound like a match, I can often confirm that with just a few calls.

Most the girls' resumes we have received have a few descriptive paragraphs, but very few contain a photo. Our son's resume contains general information but no personality description. It has info on parents, siblings, a chronology of his schools/yeshivas, lots of references -- and his height, to appease those who consider height to be essential info!

I'm not as well-connected as Smilingmom so I do call the references, and I often ask references for additional names to call.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I am a reference for a former student of mine and she emailed me a shidduch resume. I know her personality and what she is looking for "off paper" and I know most her family but I can't always keep track of each of the siblings or remember offhand what the father does so it's helpful for me to have it on paper. For this purpose, I think it's great.

Sunday, September 27, 2009

Responses to my shidduch resume post at imamother

Interesting range of responses that pretty much matches the poll results to be posted in the next post. Here they are quoted with any names removed or modified to remove any id from the posters on the imamother forum:

my thoughts are that there has to be more opportunities for mingling between adult men and women who are yeshivish, I dont know how it could be done appropriately, but there must be a way. paper resumes are annoying and demeaning.

---------------------------------------------
That's it? Not necessarily. A shidduch resume is essentially the same thing as asking "So tell me about him, where did he go in Israel, what's he doing now, what is he looking for" - just on paper rather than over the phone. You can tell things from a shidduch resume, although obviously nowhere near everything. For example, if a guy went to a yeshivish elementary school and high school, a modern yeshiva in Israel, learned there for one year, and then came back and dormed at a college far from a frum community, I would probably not reject him outright, but I would definitely ask very specific questions to make sure that we're on the same page. If a guy went to all very very frum schools and had been learning full-time ever since, his father's occupation was listed as "learning in Lakewood" and his mother's as "homemaker," I would ask very different questions.

That's schools. You can also get his references from the resume, as well as some pointers about who else to call to "check him out." In other words, if he lists that he was in a certain yeshiva for several years, you might call someone you know in that yeshiva (relative, friend of a relative) to find out more about him.

If you don't believe in the shidduch system at all, in that you don't think that so many questions should be asked before the first date, then you're not going to agree with the resume aspect either. But if you do agree with the shidduch system, at least to some degree, then the resume is just an alternative to multiple long phone calls with one person scribbling down answers. It also allows someone to write something on the bottom like "After going to school X in Israel, which did not really fit my hashkafa, I finally found a place that I felt comfortable when I went to yeshiva Y." Which at least tells you how the person defines himself.

I personally did not have a shidduch resume when


-------------------------------------------------------------
Resumes are useful, especially if they include numbers for references (though some of the best info comes from people who aren't the list).

------------------------------

You forgot to write that they are totally degrading, because they're often mandatory for the girls, but not for the boys.

------------------------------------------------
I dont think theyre mandatory for the girls-I just think its a convenient way to give over the girls info. this way, the girl can fax it to the shadchan, instead of saying, she went to _____ school, works _____, has ____ siblings, and give a list of the references...
if the resume is like a job resume, then I agree its not so good, but if its just a piece of paper with general info, I dont see the difference between the girls mother saying it or writing and faxing it

-----------------------------------------------------
When I was dating I thought it was extremely helpful to have one. If someone wanted my info, I'd just email it to them and didn't have to waste time explaining the basics of my life to them. If they had more questions they could call me. I hated when friends would ask what I was looking for and I'd sit on the phone for an hour when they didn't really have a guy in mind. It made my life (and my mother's) a whole lot easier!
---------------------------------------
I dont think theyre mandatory for the girls-I just think its a convenient way to give over the girls info. this way, the girl can fax it to the shadchan, instead of saying, she went to _____ school, works _____, has ____ siblings, and give a list of the references...
if the resume is like a job resume, then I agree its not so good, but if its just a piece of paper with general info, I dont see the difference between the girls mother saying it or writing and faxing it

They're mandatory in a sense that if someone asks for one, what possible excuse can you give for not just complying that will wash? Ultimately everything on it is stuff like you said, but the point is that boys don't have to do it. That imbalance is what is degrading, even if they're convenient.

FWIW laying it all out on paper is not identical with trying to sell them in spoken words. There is no enthusiasm on a piece of paper.


------------------------------------------------
gf wrote: first of all as we all know by now references lie ...

second of all why don't we just all line up the girls and have the boys pick out the beauty and have a chuppa ready on the spot ... it'll work just as well

third when people ask for pictures Shocked whose hands do these pictures end up in ... I would not like to find out ...

all in all do you wanna know a person - or a piece of paper before you conjoin in the most intimate way of life - only to wake up with the horror of all the things that were left out ...

------------------------------
:
all in all do you wanna know a person - or a piece of paper before you conjoin in the most intimate way of life - only to wake up with the horror of all the things that were left out ...


Um, maybe yo'ure confused about the purpose of a shidduch resume? You don't marry the person if you like their shidduch resume. You decide that it might be a good idea to go out with them (after doing a bit of additional checking.) Then you get to know them, then you marry them. You don't assume that the resume explains everything about them. You just use it as a starting point.

And as for the "references lie" bit, they do sometimes. But sometimes 1) they may say something that they think is incredible (e.g., he's such a masmid that he'll stay in learning his whole life, or he's gung-ho on moving to Israel and talks about nothing else) that could clue you in to an issue that you might not be comfortable with (if you don't want to marry someone who's learning at all, or if you are gung-ho about staying near family). He may be a wonderful person, but he may not fit with you.

And 2) You can often use references or other information on the resume, as I mentioned above, to find other people to ask. And sometimes those people will tell you what you need to know.



-------------------------------------------------
I think that the most useful type of shidduch resume includes not only a dry list of where the person's been in school, camp, etc., but a few paragraphs - is the person quiet / outgoing, does he want to learn in kollel his whole life or be a doctor? is she artistic and musical or more mathematically oriented?
-------------------------------------------


"anon wrote: You forgot to write that they are totally degrading, because they're often mandatory for the girls, but not for the boys."
I know!

It's interesting that they're soooo important, but apparently, it's not necessary for a guy to have one.
---------------------

A boy needs a secretary while a girl needs an agent. Sad, but true. It's quite simply a matter of supply and demand--at any age older than newborn, there are always more females than males, and the older you get the bigger the gap grows. Add to that the unfortunate fact that women's biological "expiration date" is earlier than men's. Therefore, males can be as demanding as they please and can afford to dawdle till something more to their liking comes along, while females have to try harder, put up with worse, and take less time doing it. As a group, females really do get a raw deal.

Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Article on the limits of women's professional progress

Read the full article, "How the 'Snow-Woman Effect' Slows Women's Progress" by Mary Ann Masonat http://www.linkedin.com/news
From the article:
Women with children face additional problems in the workplace. They may have an especially difficult time participating in the job-related social networking that is often required to advance. In academe the socializing is not so likely to be sports talk and all-night boozing, but mothers may have to leave meetings that do not end by 5 p.m. in order to pick up children. Or they may be unable to attend job talks, receptions, or search-committee dinners because of child-care commitments.

It is usually an accumulation of small and large incidents that marginalize female administrators. I think of this as the "snow-woman effect." The layers of missed opportunities, family obligations, and small and large slights build up over the years, slowing their career progress compared with men.


What of the implications for frum women who usually have childcare responsibilities for far more years than their secular counterparts?

What works for weddings, easy Shabbos recipes, Sukkoth inspiration and far more

is covered in the fall issue of Kallah Magazine, which you can now read online! The fall issue of Kallah Magazine, which came out before Rosh Hashana, is now posted with absolutely free access. So if you couldn't pick up a hard copy for yourself, you can read it by clicking on the link that says Fall09 right near the top of the home page at www.kallahmagazine.com

Sunday, September 20, 2009

What Do Advertisers Want?

Someone on the LinkedIn magazine group pointed to this article:
What Do Advertisers Want?
It is interesting to see the considerations., though I may have a somewhat different view on things as a publisher. But still, from speaking with advertisers, I don't think many of them have thought through all these issues. For example, on the presentation of "Product Cycle," many advertisers I have who are offering a long product cycle, like a wedding service or a mattress, expect an ad to yield the results of a short product cycle. They expect instant results from ads that do not offer promotional incentives. Realistically, though, all they can expect of a an ad that just lets people know of their existence is to get on the "'consideration list'" -- but not to make them call in reference to ad right away. As the writer explains:

Product Cycle: Some products are bought every day; some have years of lag between purchases. There is probably no determinant of strategy that is more overlooked by media suppliers. This is a long subject, but I’ll give a quick summary:

- Short product cycle (i.e. soft drinks): These are products that consumers buy every day and don’t put much thought or research into. Everything else being equal, the most recent ad will be the most effective. High coverage, “call to action” media are preferred.

- Long product cycle (i.e. cars): Usually there will be two objectives. The first, to build a brand image in order to get on consumers’ “consideration lists” (usually only 3-5 brands in a category will be considered by a consumer). The second objective will be to close the sale and it will be similar to a short cycle product strategy (fast, cheap coverage). Also, the execution is usually highly promotional (come down this weekend and save!).

Thursday, September 17, 2009

Shidduch qualities list

I recall my grandmother (considered a beautiful woman BTW) A"H telling me that she wanted to marry an ugly man. I said, "But you didn't!" She admitted that her husband had been a handsome man, but he, nevertheless, had the qualities she wanted (which, I am certain, included intelligence) without the negatives sometimes to be found in people conscious of good looks.

I brought this up in my comment to Mother in Israel's post with regard to Bad4Shidduchim, which you can see here.
She shidduch requirements read as follows:
  • Facial Structure
  • Body Build
  • Politeness
  • Social Grace
  • Cleanliness
  • Kindness
  • Attitude
  • Intelligence
  • Affluence
  • Worldliness
  • Bravado
  • Height

If you pay attention to that list, you would notice that no less than 3 are devoted to superficial physical characteristics. 2 are highly questionable: Is it really good for a Ben Torah to consider himself worldly or to carry himself with bravado? I don’t know what is meant by attitude in this context. Politeness, I would consider a subcategory of social graces. Cleanliness, I take as a given and wouldn’t deign to mention it.

Rosh Hashana Wishes

Rosh Hashana Wishes

Posted using ShareThis

Friday, September 11, 2009

Get it while you can!

The fall issue of Kallah Magazine was distributed in the 5 Towns, Queens, and Brooklyn where they are snatched up up pretty rapidly. In fact, when one propietor claimed he didn't want me to put the magazines there because they are just left, I pointed out that all the ones I put out there last week were gone. In fact, in many stores, I saw that the piles of the newsprint publications remain high, while the Kallah Magazine piles are down to one. So be sure to pick up your copy while you can. Otherwise, you can watch for the PDF of the issue that will likely be put online at www.kallahmagazine.com in a week or two.

Thursday, September 10, 2009

One person's solutions to a person who refused to pay

I was in Queens today where I and ran into someone who recognized me as Kallah Magazine. In the course of the conversation, his table companion offered what he did when someone refused to pay him. He told a couple of guys he would pay them $1000 to make sure the man who stiffed him would limp. The next time he saw him, the man walked with a cane, and he felt very satisifed. Much as I may think some of the people I have had difficulties with may deserve such treatment, it is not something I would actually do. Justice will simply have to be served by the Almighty.

Sunday, September 06, 2009

Truth, Lies, and Shidduch Dating

Wolfish Musings: Is Lying About One's Age Grounds For Breaking A Shidduch?
I agree with Wolf's view. The fact that the person cannot be trust to be truthful is more of an issue than the age itself. I find a parallel to this in people who conceal health conditions so as not to damage their shidduch prospects. See the comment at http://www.examiner.com/x-18522-NY-Jewish-Bridal-Examiner~y2009m8d17-Popping-the-Questions

Friday, September 04, 2009

Tuesday, September 01, 2009

Is this a conspiracy to put makeup artists out of business?

See Orthonomics
on the latest idea for using tzedaka funds to prevent brides from wearing makeup to their weddings.

The Jewish secrets to developing a growing, nurturing and lasting relationship!

I think they would draw more people if it were for women. And, of course, there are those who would say that opening it up to both men and women can help solve the problem. The following appeared in an online email list:
*SHIDDUCH COACHES* *Presents**Is Dating Stressful for you???*
*(FOR MEN ONLY)*

*http://shidduchcoaches.ning.com/events/mens-night-out*
The Jewish secrets to developing a growing, nurturing and lasting
relationship!
*We will discuss skills and techniques for building confidence to find your
Bashert.** *Wednesday night,**September 2, 2009 7pm*

*Located in **Passaic, NJ*

**(Easy access to public transportation: i.e. Bus #190 & NJ Transit)
*Dinner Night with the following speakers:*
*Rabbi Aron & Yehudis Rosenbaum*
*Naftali & Chana Schwartz*


*Come enjoy a hot meal and discover Jewish values as well as dating skills
for attracting your life partner. Experience a positive difference! We are
having Coaching workshops and Classes!*

*The Menagerie – Englewood, NJ Kashrus RCBC Supervision.*

Register online: *www.shidduchcoaches.com/shidduchcoaches/Events.html * -
fill out a form with all your information, then make payment on paypal.

Prepay online only! You can pay by credit card on Paypal.com

*Bring your friends*! For further information call 845-371-2488.
*COVER CHARGE* $25