Responses to my shidduch resume post at imamother

Interesting range of responses that pretty much matches the poll results to be posted in the next post. Here they are quoted with any names removed or modified to remove any id from the posters on the imamother forum:

my thoughts are that there has to be more opportunities for mingling between adult men and women who are yeshivish, I dont know how it could be done appropriately, but there must be a way. paper resumes are annoying and demeaning.

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That's it? Not necessarily. A shidduch resume is essentially the same thing as asking "So tell me about him, where did he go in Israel, what's he doing now, what is he looking for" - just on paper rather than over the phone. You can tell things from a shidduch resume, although obviously nowhere near everything. For example, if a guy went to a yeshivish elementary school and high school, a modern yeshiva in Israel, learned there for one year, and then came back and dormed at a college far from a frum community, I would probably not reject him outright, but I would definitely ask very specific questions to make sure that we're on the same page. If a guy went to all very very frum schools and had been learning full-time ever since, his father's occupation was listed as "learning in Lakewood" and his mother's as "homemaker," I would ask very different questions.

That's schools. You can also get his references from the resume, as well as some pointers about who else to call to "check him out." In other words, if he lists that he was in a certain yeshiva for several years, you might call someone you know in that yeshiva (relative, friend of a relative) to find out more about him.

If you don't believe in the shidduch system at all, in that you don't think that so many questions should be asked before the first date, then you're not going to agree with the resume aspect either. But if you do agree with the shidduch system, at least to some degree, then the resume is just an alternative to multiple long phone calls with one person scribbling down answers. It also allows someone to write something on the bottom like "After going to school X in Israel, which did not really fit my hashkafa, I finally found a place that I felt comfortable when I went to yeshiva Y." Which at least tells you how the person defines himself.

I personally did not have a shidduch resume when

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Resumes are useful, especially if they include numbers for references (though some of the best info comes from people who aren't the list).
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You forgot to write that they are totally degrading, because they're often mandatory for the girls, but not for the boys.

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I dont think theyre mandatory for the girls-I just think its a convenient way to give over the girls info. this way, the girl can fax it to the shadchan, instead of saying, she went to _____ school, works _____, has ____ siblings, and give a list of the references...
if the resume is like a job resume, then I agree its not so good, but if its just a piece of paper with general info, I dont see the difference between the girls mother saying it or writing and faxing it
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When I was dating I thought it was extremely helpful to have one. If someone wanted my info, I'd just email it to them and didn't have to waste time explaining the basics of my life to them. If they had more questions they could call me. I hated when friends would ask what I was looking for and I'd sit on the phone for an hour when they didn't really have a guy in mind. It made my life (and my mother's) a whole lot easier!
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I dont think theyre mandatory for the girls-I just think its a convenient way to give over the girls info. this way, the girl can fax it to the shadchan, instead of saying, she went to _____ school, works _____, has ____ siblings, and give a list of the references...
if the resume is like a job resume, then I agree its not so good, but if its just a piece of paper with general info, I dont see the difference between the girls mother saying it or writing and faxing it

They're mandatory in a sense that if someone asks for one, what possible excuse can you give for not just complying that will wash? Ultimately everything on it is stuff like you said, but the point is that boys don't have to do it. That imbalance is what is degrading, even if they're convenient.

FWIW laying it all out on paper is not identical with trying to sell them in spoken words. There is no enthusiasm on a piece of paper.

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gf wrote: first of all as we all know by now references lie ...

second of all why don't we just all line up the girls and have the boys pick out the beauty and have a chuppa ready on the spot ... it'll work just as well

third when people ask for pictures whose hands do these pictures end up in ... I would not like to find out ...

all in all do you wanna know a person - or a piece of paper before you conjoin in the most intimate way of life - only to wake up with the horror of all the things that were left out ...

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: all in all do you wanna know a person - or a piece of paper before you conjoin in the most intimate way of life - only to wake up with the horror of all the things that were left out ... Um, maybe yo'ure confused about the purpose of a shidduch resume? You don't marry the person if you like their shidduch resume. You decide that it might be a good idea to go out with them (after doing a bit of additional checking.) Then you get to know them, then you marry them. You don't assume that the resume explains everything about them. You just use it as a starting point. And as for the "references lie" bit, they do sometimes. But sometimes 1) they may say something that they think is incredible (e.g., he's such a masmid that he'll stay in learning his whole life, or he's gung-ho on moving to Israel and talks about nothing else) that could clue you in to an issue that you might not be comfortable with (if you don't want to marry someone who's learning at all, or if you are gung-ho about staying near family). He may be a wonderful person, but he may not fit with you. And 2) You can often use references or other information on the resume, as I mentioned above, to find other people to ask. And sometimes those people will tell you what you need to know.

------------------------------------------------- I think that the most useful type of shidduch resume includes not only a dry list of where the person's been in school, camp, etc., but a few paragraphs - is the person quiet / outgoing, does he want to learn in kollel his whole life or be a doctor? is she artistic and musical or more mathematically oriented?

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"anon wrote: You forgot to write that they are totally degrading, because they're often mandatory for the girls, but not for the boys."
I know!

It's interesting that they're soooo important, but apparently, it's not necessary for a guy to have one.
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A boy needs a secretary while a girl needs an agent. Sad, but true. It's quite simply a matter of supply and demand--at any age older than newborn, there are always more females than males, and the older you get the bigger the gap grows. Add to that the unfortunate fact that women's biological "expiration date" is earlier than men's. Therefore, males can be as demanding as they please and can afford to dawdle till something more to their liking comes along, while females have to try harder, put up with worse, and take less time doing it. As a group, females really do get a raw deal.